The messy middle is where the real work lives, even when no one’s watching.

About the Podcast

The Messy Middle Matters is for people who carry the weight, smooth the friction, and quietly keep things moving inside their teams and organizations.

Each episode explores the real stories behind how work actually gets done—the tricky conversations, the invisible labor, the tradeoffs no one teaches you, and the resilience it takes to build meaningful things inside imperfect systems.

New episodes drop weekly and feature leaders, operators, managers, and makers who aren’t afraid to get honest about the complexity and the humanity of work.

About Indra

Hi, I’m Indra Klavins, coach, mediator, longtime operator, and the person behind The Messy Middle Matters.

For more than 15 years, I’ve worked alongside teams and leaders navigating change: growth, reorgs, pivots, burnout, conflict, and the uncomfortable in-between moments where roles blur, and pressure rises. I’ve led and supported teams in tech, operations, product, and design, and I’ve spent much of my career in organizations with high expectations. The path forward isn’t always straightforward.

What I’ve learned is this: Progress rarely comes from perfect plans. It comes from how people move through the messy middle together.

Today, my work centers on helping teams and organizations navigate transitions with greater clarity, capacity, and humanity. I do that through a mix of coaching, facilitation, and fractional operations support—meeting people where they are, naming what’s actually happening, and helping them turn intention into sustainable action.

I’m also a writer and a storyteller. Through this podcast and my weekly Substack, I explore the invisible work that keeps teams functioning: the glue work, the emotional labor, the quiet tradeoffs, and the choices people make when the rules are unclear but the stakes are real.

The Messy Middle Matters started as a way to name that work and make it visible—but it’s become something bigger: a space for honest conversations about how work actually gets done, and a reminder that you’re not alone in carrying what you carry.

Whether I’m coaching a leadership team, stepping in as a fractional operator, or hosting a conversation on the podcast, my approach stays the same: stay grounded, stay human, and help people do the work that matters, even when it’s invisible.